Empire: Total War AI Diary
Hi, I’m Jack Lusted a Games Tester at the Creative Assembly UK and this blog will detail my part in the Battle AI development process and how the AI testing works. This blog compliments an upcoming video development diary on the Battle AI.
First a bit of background on myself. Now I’m sure many of you from the community will know me (so you can just skip the next bit), but for those who don’t I used to be an admin of Total War Center, one of the biggest Total War fan sites. I’ve been playing the series since Medieval: Total War was released back in 2002. I’ve been working here at the Creative Assembly UK since June last year as a Tester and secondee to the Empire design team.
As a tester, I have a wide range of tools available to me with which I can see exactly what the AI is doing and thinking. This makes it easy to spot problems with the AI, and helps Richard Bull (Battle AI programmer) more quickly fix any problems that are found.
There are a variety of battles that we have set up that we use to test the AI on. Most battles will consist of me trying a variety of tactics against the AI to see how it reacts, and noting what it does and doesn’t do well. Other times we will run the game so the AI controls both sides and fights itself, to see how well it does in that situation. That is also one of the most useful ways of exposing flaws in the AI. As the project goes on, the AI will be tested under a wider variety of situations to make sure it plays well in all battles.
During each battle, we can play with all the AI debug information being shown. This lets us see exactly what each AI unit is doing and what tactics it’s engaging. This allows us to get a very clear picture of the AI’s overall strategy and so makes it easy to see where it could be improved and where it isn’t quite behaving right.
Every fortnight myself, Richard and one of the Designers will meet up and discuss the progress of the AI. We’ll talk about the issues with it, new things that have been added in and other progress that has been made since the last meeting. We’ll also make suggestions for improvements by discussing how the AI should react in certain situations and how it should play. For instance some new code has recently gone in based on an idea to try and improve the organization of the AI during the later stages of battle. After each meeting we’ll generally have a few specific areas of the AI that we’ve been asked to test before the next meeting.
The close link between myself as a tester and the battle AI programmer is new for Empire and this process of regular meetings and constant testing helps ensure that the battle AI is always moving forwards. The process will carry on right up until release, and things are looking very promising already.
Also for Empire, I’ve written a series of design documents on how the AI should deal with certain situations and general things it should do based on how myself and others play the game. These documents are constantly updated as more is added to them, new tactics are included and situations arise which have AI design implications. This ensures that there are always up to date documents detailing how the AI should play both generally in battles, and more specifically for certain situations. This helps give clear goals for how the AI should progress, and means we are aiming towards an AI that plays a lot more like a human and so should provide more of a challenge to both our experienced players and those new to the series.
If you’ve got any questions on this blog, please do send them in.
Jack.
Comment # 1
Great!
I would very much like to see a departure from the simplistic run-and-crush strategy of past TW titles.
Important are a wider distribution of troops over the battlefield with the capture of strategic sites (hilltops, bridges) and the development of coherent regroup-and-retry strategies as well as the employment of reserves by the AI. This would greatly add to making the battles a true enjoyment.
Posted by on a mountain on June 24th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Comment # 2
Nice to read that, and it’s good that you put serious effort on the AI. Keep up the good work gentlemen. And remember, a good AI must keep the human player on his toes and give him real challenge along with some nasty surprises.
Regards, Hohenstaufen
Posted by Hohenstaufen on June 24th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Comment # 4
yeah well I’m glad you’re experiencing some results but I hope that you’ll not develop the AI so much that for every decision we make on the battlefield it always counters with a better one that will make your own look useless
Posted by boss on June 24th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Comment # 5
Great thing
looking forward to testing the new AI
Question:
Will the world-map-AI behave more like the armies in history actually did? Im a bit worried, becuz i think it somehow disturbs the atmosphere, when for example a faction like Milan produces only armies with 100% crossbow-militia, just becuz it´s the best unit available.
Same goes for Poland with 100% Mounted-Crossbow (Strylezy or sth). This just doesnt look real and plausible. (referring to medieval 2)
I also would like to know whether the AI will know more tactical manoeuvres than just flanking with cavallery
Posted by Ace on June 24th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Comment # 7
Hi,
do you have a similar testing process for campaign map AI? Someone from CA staff said battle AI and campaign AI are developed by the same programmer for ETW. Are you focusing on specific areas to improve campaign AI?
Posted by Sirius 21 on June 24th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Comment # 8
Hi, i’m one of the staff members of the Total War Community in South Korea
and i was wondering if, by any chance, you can least tell me what the minimum system requirement will be?
i’ve tried to contact anyone working at CA for interviews and such, for the people in Korea, but never happened, and now, here i am, posting a comment.
Posted by thefreehero on June 24th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Comment # 9
So your names Jack, you test the game and give feedback to the designers…thats the gist right? Did you really need eight paragraphs to tell us that?! This blog contains absolutely no specific information, it is utterly bland and pointless!
Posted by Joe on June 24th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Comment # 10
Hi, ive played total war since Shogun first came out and the cavalry has always been a problem for me only when im chacing down the runaways. Have you fixed the problem when my cavalry is about to run the enemy down but, insteads of running them down they just stop and runs allongside the enemy?
Posted by Brett on June 25th, 2008 at 12:51 am
Comment # 11
Hi TW team,
First of all i’would like to congratulate you for the best strategy games i’ve played, and i should say that I’ve played all of your series since Shogun: Total war. Nothing i’ve seen even compares to the excelence of your real time batles among other issues. My very best congratulations once again.
But now my question. Studying fortresses from the 16th century till th 18th (wich i think will be the ones most used in your next game) i’ve seen that the inland schema of fortification starts much further than just near the fort itself with a somewaht complicated section of the terrain wich would include optimized defensive position/ dificulties for the attacking forces. Even knowing that most of todays examples of that time fortresses have been very damaged by ignorance it is know that without this surrounding positions, the architectural piece is incomplete. Knowing the importance of territorial positioning during battle in order you have given the last games i ask if is your game attending to this issues?
Before ending i would only ask (if it of some relevance…) to include Portugal as a playable faction, at least as a sinking empire as it was in the middle 18th century.
Keep up the good work.
Yours,
Luís
Posted by Luis on June 25th, 2008 at 7:38 am
Comment # 12
Good afternoon Jack.
May I ask you if the resistance of the AI is planned to be tougher then previous TW games? More specific; in single player game the AI allways sends only small armies to attack (except when a faction is hoarding like the Huns).
Other question; as a resident of Amsterdam I am very curious if Holland will be a playable or unlockable faction? In advance I am allready studying books about naval tactics since warfare is a large hobby and interest of mine.
Many thanks in advance & kind regards, Rene
Posted by Rene Hermans on June 25th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Comment # 13
Sounds good. I hope the AI is based on actual historic tactics
Posted by scotty on June 25th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Comment # 14
Well its not just on this blog but, being a huge fan like many other people reading these blogs and checking out the websites etc, I am wondering if you can please release some trailers or maybe some unit information, or even some maps info. It could be on what countries will be in the game playable and un-playable, or even the continents in the game.
Finally will there be people like Lorn Nelson, and George Washington in the game, and I do realise that you have mentioned they could or couldn’t be in the game due to the way the person plays but I am just wondering if they will be in it. Also my final question is that if the game experiences the American revolution how experienced will the soldiers be, will they be as good as a British army or will they easy to beat like in ‘Patriot’ and progress and become harder and become even harder with the help of the french.
Thanks for releasing these games no pc game compares to them and a pre-thank you if you answer my questions and add some footage etc to Totalwar.com.
Posted by Jamie Lee Twigg on June 25th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Comment # 15
Thanks for the update on the progress on Empire:Total War. This latest Dev Diary is most intriguing. Could you post the names of some programs that allow you to test the AI? One of my friends is trying to get into the “indie” business, but without the proper tools he is having a most difficult time. I believe that this would be most helpful though my knowledge of game design is quite limited. Either way looks like it’s shaping up to be a great game. I can safely speak for everyone when I say, “we are incredibly excited and crazy with anticipation for this game to come out”. Keep up the great work.
P.S. Any suspected release date yet?
Posted by Chrat on June 25th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Comment # 16
when will the game be done,i hope it will be sooner then automn,it is a long summer and all day without any thing to do..please answer
Posted by Nuncaboy on June 25th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Comment # 17
How about adding some pictures to illustrate how you are testing the AI. Also what are the battle strategies that you are employing. Hope you can eliminate any dud behaviour as was seen many times in Medieval II total war, like an army standing motionless while it is peppered by missiles, which should have responded by either withdrawing or attacking by a full frontal attack.
I also noticed in Medieval II total war that units were not so loose , so units , especially cavalry, tended to bunch up one after the other. Hope you can remidy this and make cavalry units behave like in Rome total war. Also , in Medieval II total war, units were not so manoeuvrable and did not respond to commands very well. It will be interesting to see how Empire total war turns out.
Will there be a demo of Empire total war coming out soon. I would love to get a peek of how it all works.
Nicolas
Posted by Nicolas on June 25th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Comment # 18
Hi Jack,
Me also been a TW gamer since shogun, but I mostly played MP simply because the AI wasnt doing the job.
I often wandered how to “feed” an AI with the right tools to be as cunning I want an AI to be.
And in that case I got a few quesions or perhaps ideas:
A general has certain characters of how he is. This should also affect on what type of army he would build (lots of arhcers etc),
The general would then search to set up or deploy his preferelbe army. Wich he will use accordingly to his taktics, sort of disregarding what the oppoennt will use. This will go especial in the Empire i belive with the arrogance of its time
But taktics on the battle field is a matter of the AI generals army and opponents army.
And the use of AIs army shold be an interaction of what army the human deploys.
So is it then possible for the AI to have some “cunning” takctics cooperating all this? By this I mean AI deploying an attack where we can see him use cav to draw feint attack, etc to pull me out of formation`? And all this effort of cav harrasment and feint attack is basicly done by AI to draw the most out of his cannons wich AI has calculated he outnumbers me with?
This is tackits we face in MP battles.
We would then have an AI wich depolys a wide range of tacktis (based upon what general you face) with an army the AI knows how to operate.
He will aslo based upon the cretarias given search for the best use of the army AI has deployd. In AI term; AI has then some sort of “need” it searches to forfill on the battlefield rather then straight to kill like in MTWII, simply becuase those needs it searces to forfill will give it an ultimatly better outcome?
AI should value holding formation as much as attakcing and charging. And Most value of all of this is to perhaps hold back its army (par units with enemy) so it will not run out of units.. etc. And based upon the information given by this. the AI shall pick the most valued decition.. AI pikcs decition based on valued priorities, fundamented on a prefferd army set up.
It would be like a human !
:O)
Posted by Boneman on June 25th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Comment # 19
Great update!
In Medieval (1) the attacking AI seemed better able to have its units attempt to ‘work the flanks’ (IIRC, the Egyptian faction was particularly good at this) that it did in M2TW. In M2TW it seemed the AI simply marched its units directly into the face of any defense I had set up (in M1, I often found myself repositioning my units in response to AI maneuvers, but almost never in M2).
Q: Will the EMPIRE AI be able to work the flanks, or attack from a more advantageous position rather than simply march its units in a straight line toward defending player armies from its starting point?
Posted by Scott (Panzer5) D on June 26th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Comment # 20
Hi,
First of all i would like to gongratulate you for your fantastic games. I should say that from all strategy games i have played Total War Series are, by far, the best. Battle environments are absolultly fantastic. Gongratulations once again.
But now my question.
Academecly I’ve been studying fortresses from that period of time (16th to 18 th), wich i think will be studied in your next Total war. I have understood that the fortress has we see them now in most of the cases aren’t but the very last part of an much bigger scheme wich would include a system of protective trenches for the defensive army. These trenches would obviously be a extra difficulty for the attacking army. Even knowing that this would increse extremely the difficulty for some players it’s understandable that the truthfulness wich is largely present in your games wouldn’t be slightly… should I say… Mislead? Will your fortresses be a defensive machine as they were thought to be?
Posted by Luís Caló on June 26th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Comment # 21
how far along is the al at this stage in time?
cheers
Posted by paul on June 26th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Comment # 23
hey, just saying the main thing i realize the the TW AI is when your archers, catapults cannons and so on are firing at enemy units they seem to stand still and take all the fire in until they’re almost dead or all retreating. has this been improved? thanks.
Posted by Ellis Clark on June 27th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Comment # 24
Hoped u would reveal something about the game.. But anyways:
Keep up the good work!
Posted by Matthijs on June 27th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Comment # 25
Will that mean that the AI will be more capable of splitting its forces in a more effective way when attacked by reinforcements? or when engaged by an allied force say on custom battle mode? Also I assume the AI will engage infantry in buildings and find the best buildings to use itself?
Thx for reading
Posted by James on June 28th, 2008 at 1:07 am
Comment # 26
artillery will cause more damage to troops than the previous game?
Posted by Alessio on June 28th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Comment # 27
I was wondering, if it was possible for the Ai to learn the players tactics ie if the player does something that is not in a military hand book and it is successful the Ai will remember. I know it sounds real difficult. However say in a campaign, Ai Generals who have experianced a battle with the player previously and have been utterly crushed should gain exactly that “experiance” knowledge of how the player plays, and attempt to beat the player next time with the knowledge gained. Players have a certain style of playing an if the Ai coul figure out our patterns it could become a really challenging situation.
Thanks Guys great Info
Posted by Rhyce on June 29th, 2008 at 12:49 am
Comment # 28
Very good to hear! Im quite happy you have paid more attention to the battle AI. I hope you teach it to flank very well and commit to strategic manauvers!
Posted by Roy Elron on June 29th, 2008 at 4:57 am
Comment # 29
I think the people who made the Rome total war or Medieval 2 total war should to make a game about Asia that name will be Asian total war. The wars of ancient Asian
Posted by khan on June 30th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Comment # 30
One of the most striking things I’ve noticed with Medieval2 – Total War is that the units are indeed blind. Especially when charging enemies, or being charged by enemies up front. Is there a possibility for it to be changed so that a unit “gets ready” for being charged by cavalry? Also, I experienced that the AI didn’t do anything to protect its 10 units of archers when I was charging them with my two units of cavalry and additional 10 units of heavy infantry. The AI had some spearmen behind the archers and should have moved the archers behind and tried to shoot the cavalry down. Instead the AI tried to shoot the cavalry down, and got charged first by heavy cavalry and simoultaniously butchered by heavy infantry. Change that, please?!
Posted by Arindon on June 30th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Comment # 31
Sounds great
In the campaign mode will the ai build balanced armys of infantry,carvlry and artillary in medival 2 it seen abit random?
Posted by Legionari on June 30th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Comment # 32
I am a 21 year old college student at the University of Texas at Dallas I have been playing Total-War games religiously since Shogun Total-War haha good ole days chasing down archers with samarai! Anyway I found Rome and M2TW very frustrating in the fact it was never challenging enough even after the crusades expansion. I would conquer the game and give all the provinces to one faction and keep maybe 3 or 4 for myself and also give the faction all the florins I wished using a cheat to do so. I could still win from that situation simply by destroying them at the gates or breaches in my walls when they attacked me. All you had to do was put a whole lot of spearmen in the way and crowd them altogether then blaze em with archers or attack the flanks with swordmen/mountedknights. Keep in mind I would always play with the hardest setting turned all the way up, where every alliance was turned down and I would make bitter enemies with all my neighbors at the start of the game. There were strategies you could learn that the AI would fall for everytime. I really hope Empire can bring a whole new challenge that could really set me at a loss.
A few things I would like to see…
Extremely detailed city management ie: assigning patrols to increase security, but costing more in wages
Complex trading systems and able to attack trade ships with your navy
Pirates????
Stealing other countries sailors like England used to do to the U.S.
War with indians?
Invade China/Japan
Extremely more complex AI characters ie: princesses, princes, retinue, assasins.
Note on assasins, please make them more useful!
I would train about 100 assasins and then just have them keep killing eachother till one killed all the rest, then he would be high enough to have a 30% chance to kill an enemy general!
Would be nice if there was a mode where you can make it so hard the other players would get two times the florins you do
Posted by Jordan Dobbs on June 30th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Comment # 33
I am very happy to hear the AI is getting closer attention as I felt this was lagging in Kingdoms. One suggestion is to have the AI have several tactical setups or concepts. This would keep the gameplay fresh. In Kingdoms it became too predictable how the AI would attack me. Also, I felt the AI would not adapt and make counter armies to my armies – it would just continue to make the same type of troops.
Anyways I am sure you guys will do a good job! Keep up the good work. I am really looking forward to this one!
Posted by Marc on July 1st, 2008 at 1:56 am
Comment # 34
Hello Lusted, I hope battle AI will now work in larger context – doing delaying battles(minimize losses) if reinforcements are coming/odds are against, regular battles(limit losses) if forces are even/battle is just for battle or all-out battles(ignore losses) if it’s playing strategically important battle!
Posted by llib on July 1st, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Comment # 35
I’ve been playing Total War since Rome and am now a diehard fan of the series, needless to say i’m very excited for Empire’s release. But I’m not sure which is more exciting to me; the idea of naval battles or commanding 18th century style land armies. Is it more challenging to program the Battle AI for land or sea battles?
Posted by Levi Bilton on July 1st, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Comment # 36
Will the battles be fought (by the AI I mean) as they were historically during the period of the game, or will this be partially disregarded as to make it more appealing to players?
Posted by Fran on July 2nd, 2008 at 4:03 am
Comment # 37
went will we be able to see the units for empire totalwar on the totalwar site
Posted by adam on July 3rd, 2008 at 1:08 am
Comment # 38
How will you base the difficulty of the AI? Will it be based on the player’s skill level? Or is it a general basis like in the past Total War games?
Posted by Brandon on July 3rd, 2008 at 2:44 am
Comment # 39
hello, my concern with the AI has to do with allied generals charging into battle and getting themselves killed more often than not. I have played every version of total war and I love the newest feture of AI reinforcements. not only has it totally increased the scale of battles It has added more control. However, I have found that wenever I place an allied army in attack formation the controlling general usally reaches the enemy way ahead of its forces. this is not supprising sense most generals are calvary. This is most unfortunate due to the value of a good general that is wasted uslessly. what if anything is being done about protecting valuable units like this
Posted by justin on July 3rd, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Comment # 40
Hi Jack, Its good to hear so much efforts going into the AI. I myself play online but mainly offline in Skirmish mode. The best games always have a human feel to the AI, with some exceptions.
Can I ask about the later in the game AI you mentioned, will I see the AI regroup, fall back, will the AI care if units are half strength?
Also, so to make the battles seem real with lined up infantry etc just like how the real batte tactics played out, Will the AI move using these tactics. I didn’t much like the ‘Bar brawl’ battles of Age of Empires 3!
Thanks for listening
Posted by graham on July 7th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Comment # 41
Ehrm, just 1 question.. Will the game be like THE WHOLE WORLD?! Omg, this game is going to rock. I love you guys for making this game… And just one thing i would like you to add: Can you do so that you can put Artillery on the walls like cannons… It would be a good thing when someone attacks your city/castle or something, it would be very nice. And also, you should make like so, when a city/castle is under siege, you should make like the Civilians is running around and are screaming because they’re afraid, it would be awesome, thanks guys.
Posted by TotalWarLover on July 8th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Comment # 42
will there be a faction with pikemen because Even late 1700s the obsolete pike would still find a use in such countries as Ireland, Russia and China, generally in the hands of desperate peasant rebels who did not have access to firearms.
Posted by Lydon on July 10th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Comment # 43
Dear Mark. How do you define the behavior and points (plus or minor) of the units and unit formation and different terrain. There are a lot of battle diferences between a medieval battle and a 18xx one
(and we have a lot of information about it)
Please give my thanks to Total war designers for the previous games
Sorry by my English (I goint to play Spain and I will surely lose , 1800 was a bad time to us, but …is my fate)
Posted by alberto rodriguez on July 10th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Comment # 44
You guys should release a trial demo with one or two battles before releasing the game ,so
total war fans have at least something on what to distract themselves while they wait for the complete game
Posted by Nem on July 12th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Comment # 45
Hi Mark,
I’ve been a fan for the Total War series for a long time. Good to se the AI gets more attention! My major concerns wtih the AI in TW Medieval 2 were that the tactics to overcome the AI enemy are just to simple, even at the hardest settings. Just gather a (very) large force, that is larger than any in the opponent’s area and sweep across your enemy’s land destroying all city’s (not bother to really occupie them). The AI enemy never uses this tactic. Also, cities are to easy to destroy since the gates and walls can allways be destroyed quickly with artillery (this is not realistic since armies at that time often had very big problems to breach the walls and suffered shortage of food etc, f.e. the siege of Constantinopel). I hope the new AI in Empire will be smarter by also using the “single large army” tactics and uses it at your own weak spots. Also it would be more interesting to see “real” fortresses, and not the easily destroyable gates of Medieval 2!
Good luck,
Martin
Posted by martin on July 14th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Comment # 46
Will there be any factions like in the past total war games or will it be more like europe v new United states? either way will be awesome and thanks to all the people involved with the total war series because all your games have been great.thanks
Posted by boltman on July 15th, 2008 at 7:03 am
Comment # 47
Hi Lusted!
Have you been working with the Campaign AI or just the Battle AI?
I hear the Campaign AI and Diplomacy AI will be linked to provide a more realistic relationship with other factions depending on how you interact with them. Can you give us some insight in to the other AI’s?
Thanks for all you do for the TW Community!
Posted by Scooter on July 15th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Comment # 48
i am a fan of TW cause i started with Rome and then Medevil II and i am just wondering if the AI armies are going to really going to fight like they did in the 1800′s… ya know front on front just a line of infntry then your cannons etc. or will they fight “unfair” as the French dubbed the Russians did when they invaded Russia(the russians burnt everything like crops and things that would be useful)… will armies have rations of food that that you can ajust so that if you have a large army then if they have smaller rations they will be worse in combat or cant march as far a distance??? cause in MIITW crusading armies would just go across the land for the longest times… plus i think the farms should be used for something other than the growth of your regions population…
all in all there is only one thing that is really annoying me is that…
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THEY KEEP POSTPONING THE DATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GRR IT MAKES ME SOOOOO MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Hen... on July 16th, 2008 at 12:01 am
Comment # 49
I have been playing the Total War Series since Shogun and am of the opinion that the graphics are undoubtedly the best on the strategy games market. It must a tremendously difficult job to balance the expectations in a game of that historical period of all potential customers – e.g. US teens and middle aged European academics alike…
It’s great that you now address AI questions to allocate computing power to a larger extent as well. A couple of suggestions:
1) Diplomacy AI:
At the moment (Kingdoms) it is too inflexible and its decisions depend too much on set difficulty levels: e.g. whether AI factions – even when helplessly outnumbered by a couple of enemies – agree to a peace deal or not.
It should be possible to have the AI calculate the odds by adding up known own and enemy troop numbers + e.g. the outcome of already fought battles + stats of the current monarch and compare it with the value of the claims (provinces, money) made by the opponent to come to a peace deal.
One of your competitors that I am not going to mention
but that equally produces strategy games in a universal historical setting (with abysmal graphics) has a brilliant – multilateral instead of bilateral – alliance& diplomacy system you could probably learn of. Having more provinces and more options to concede something would also make it easier for the AI to trade/accept deals and therefore make diplomatic haggle more fun.
2) Strategic AI
To my mind there has been some progress made since Rome where you had I read that in Empire you will have the production of units directly allocated to generals. I hope that it will be the same for AI led factions, so that ultimately every AI unit will have a general (except garrisons). What ever bad its quality might be it would already improve the AI armies and avoid numerous half empty army units idly standing around.
At least the AI should not start an offensive action of a larger scale without a general in the unit.
3) Battlefield AI
Great idea to have these new situation scripts! Does that mean you’ll have to come up with an AI reaction for any probable specific combat situation?
The ‘suicidal general’ question (see comment 3 above) could be easily avoided by having the possibility to put generals together in a ‘headquarters staff’ cavalry unit that is not engaging in combat unless told so by the player (with no combat value but providing a moral boost when doing so).
Btw I am interested in games AI, can anyone recommend some reading on the topic? I am not into programming but good at Excel & logic though.
Posted by Boney N on July 16th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Comment # 50
Glad to see a lot of attention is going into developing Empire. I am totally looking foreward to the day when the AI will kick my butt and send me home crying.
Posted by Ubernoober on July 17th, 2008 at 4:08 am
Comment # 51
I assume that including the east asian nations would be a good expansion pack for empire. What type of soundtrack would the game possess?
Posted by Mat on July 18th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Comment # 52
Hey man, i think you are doing a great job with the total war Series, but I have a few questions?
-Will there be any walls on the city’s..becasue citys back then did not have any walls, all they had were wodden walls.
-Will all the army’s be using guns and all that?
-Well this isn’t a question, but they shoul dhave it if that an army is attacking an army and the attacking army has a fleet nearby that the fleet could bobmbard the defending army to oblivion.
I think that this will be the best series for Total War in the World.
GO USA and THE FRENCH REVOLUTION
Posted by Alex Klei on July 21st, 2008 at 1:56 am
Comment # 53
what countries will you be able to play, would realy like to play my own, SWEDEN
and also I think that the AI has been to stupied in the resent total wars and like walking into a wall and get stuck. and when will Empire be released in Sweden??
best regards Isaac
Posted by Isaac on July 25th, 2008 at 12:25 am
Comment # 54
I hope you guys also test out the strategic AI. One of the frustrating things in Rome and Medieval2 is the way the AI composes armies (as mentioned above in comment #2), especially at times when the faction has the capacity to build one unit that is much “stronger” than the others – you’ll get armies with 15 trebuchets, say, or 18 Pavise crossbowmen units…
Posted by christian h. on July 26th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Comment # 55
I have played Total War since I was small – every game, every expansion, every mod (almost!) – and I have yet to find a challenge worthy of my great tactical and strategical genius. In some games I would give all my provinces to some weird desert faction and exile myself to northern Scandinavia or the Sahara – and still the AI would pose no threat! In M2TW and afterwards this was even easier, with the Great Cavalry Charge introduced. Sometimes my general would have 2000 kills alone. I even modded the game so the AI would have nasty amounts of money and even better stats – still they fall like tomatoes before me! I WANT A CHALLENGE! Please make the AI challenging… I’ve been waiting for so long! As Tacitus once said, “I only become better by fighting those superior to me”.
Posted by Xstar on July 28th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Comment # 56
How in a battle will you tell your troops to fire from behind earthworkings and other obstacles
Posted by Zach on July 30th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
Comment # 57
Hi guys, I am great fan of all the total war games, Shogun onwards. I see a few people have made suggestions already about battle AI. I found all too often that enemy armies would just charge in, including cavalry, straight into my line of spear/heavy infantry. They would get killed every single time (this is on v.hard settings). The AI needs to “assess” the front line, flanks etc to determine the best troops to send in or skirmish, testing the lines defences. The tactics of 17th/18th century was still fire cannons, close in, fire muskets, close in for melee but I’m guessing there were still tactics. I hope the AI will be the best we’ve seen yet. Good luck guys!
Posted by Deano on August 3rd, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Comment # 58
Been playing TW since shogun, and always found the AI kinda sucked, and recently in M2TW all i have to do is get militia grade ranged troops and melee troop, light artillery, sit them on advantageous terrain, and fire away. i hope theres an improvement
Posted by LawL on August 5th, 2008 at 8:34 am
Comment # 59
I’m thinking you outta make them soldiers loose their hats, once in a while.
I don’t know why, but it’s a real important thing to see on the battlefield.
Plus,adding wounded men that still move and crawl and bitch about their trials might be cool
Make the flag-carrier a central point of the regiment.
Make the weather affect even more: thrist, cold, any effect can be observed on ill-prepared troops.
Posted by neamtzu_rau on August 8th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Comment # 60
I am a huge fan of the series, ever since i’ve started playing with the release of rome: total war. I was a bit concerned though that the AI in the game didn’t quite utilize many tactics of the period (ie: roman legionary patterns, hannible’s trap at Cannae), and also with the release of Medieval 2, in which an enemy army, if it had archers, would march its entire force within range of my archers to engge in a skirmish, regardless of whether they (the enemy) were all getting slaughtered, and would not counteratack untill it seemed that all of his archers were wiped out. Even in some situations where the enemy refused to even turn about to face my men (namely a city battle, where i was attacking, and mostly in the town square) up until i charged them with my own forces. Again, when they would attack the gates, they would send their entire force to stand outside the walls and be cut down by arows.
I just wanted to bring these feeling to your attenting, and hope that i dont encounter a similar dissapointment in the upcoming Empire.
PS. I also hope that buildings and such can actually become a focal point in certain battles, and not be ignored, as well as having the Ai be more tactically flexible, such as employing the tried and true tactic of “divide and conquer” (namely sending a detachment of its main force to flank my own formations.
PS. again – Can navies bombard coastal settlements and coastal fortifications? If so, that would be very sweet.
Posted by bob on August 13th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Comment # 61
hello i love total war games they are the best war games. I love the idear of sea battles iv always wanted to so a sea battle in the other games but i dident mind.
I think that you should have a sandbox mode so that it is unlimied money because that would be fun just to build up huge armys and just take over. On the campain you should be able to have it on very easy which is easy, and easy which is kind of easy,medium which is not easy and not hard, hard which is hard for those who like a chaellange and very hard for those like me that like a great chaellge. what i mean by easy is you dont have to worrie about money as much and just worry about your armys and attcks but on very hard you have to worry about money alot and your armys alot and other factions build up armys quicker. oh the last thing you should beable to online battles with people around the world.
Posted by Liam Nash on August 14th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Comment # 62
I don’t know how far along you are in creating the game, but I think there is something vitally important I feel would add to the game. In M2TW generals were able to set up defensable forts in enemy territories which I thought was a great concept. However it was frustrating that the units could not recoup in the forts. I also think it would be interesting if such forts could also produce units. Certainly not as wide as castles persey but maybe a single type of unit. As Americans moved westward we built forts in mostly unknown territory and from the fort expanded control until the region was “settled”. Just a thought….
Posted by essendle on August 17th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Comment # 63
Hi, l’ve been a total war fan since l started playing Rome Total War like 5 years ago and now l’m a big fan.
l’ve got one question. You know that you can control your Al Armys, l just asking if you could put more features and not just attack, defend and fire mode. l want more for these, so l can tell like on of my Al army group to like attack someone else while the others attck someone else.
l’m talking about controling your own faction army, in land battles
Finally its great to hear that your paying more attention to the Al, and l hope you would listern to me.
Can’t wait for it to come out
Posted by ComeOnTotalWar on August 18th, 2008 at 4:56 am
Comment # 64
Yahoo!I really can’t wait for this game to be released.But,there’s a question…..What is Empire Total War’s minimum requirement?I think it will take double the size from the last game (which i also like the most) Medieval II.
Posted by Syafiq on August 20th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Comment # 65
Dear Mark, will the new AI make rational diplomatic decisions based on the military capabilities of other nations, for example in MTW2, weak and poor nations would refuse to have an end to hostilities even when all was lost and they had no money or troops…perhaps after giving the enemy a good beating and taking a good chunk of their lands they would sue for peace and offer large amounts of cash as they used to do? or after losing several important battles, the AI would offer parts of their lands in exchange for peace?. In addition to this, why do your allies decide the best thing is, is to attack you out of the blue? or other nations declare war on you and then only decide to blockade a port or two? Could the AI not get fixed so that it can make both rational and diplomatic decisions?
Thanks alot look forward to the new game!
Posted by Tim on August 20th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Comment # 66
Will there be a demo released any time soon? I sure hope I’m not missinformed when I was told you can be playing as Sweden in this game, it would be like the first game who ever let’s me play as my home country. (Except for all the sports games..)
Sure hope the battles will be fought as they where fought in 18xx.. Seriously I’m can’t wait for this game to be released!
Posted by Joel on August 20th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Comment # 67
HELLO I HAVE A QUESTION THAT I THINK EVERONE WHO EVER PLAYED A TOTAL WAR TITLE WILL THERE BE ONLINE CAMPEIGN MODES
Posted by fatkatzz55 on August 21st, 2008 at 5:35 am
Comment # 68
hi im a big fan and was wondering if there was new unit formations?
Posted by russ on August 22nd, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Comment # 69
O yea i was also thinking i like the ideas of artilary on walls and running civilians and was wondering if there could be wildlife on the battle field and if the citys/castles of forts could have fields around them. because the farms wernt very far away
good luck from russ
Posted by russ on August 22nd, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Comment # 70
Have played all the total wars since the first mediaeval and beaten every game with every faction, mainly for the something to do factor than for a challenge because although the total war series is great, I haven’t noticed a significant improvement in the Ai all this while. Essentially the only way to lose to the computer is to make a terribly unbalanced army (19 cannons, and even then I have squeeked out victories) or do the same strategy the Ai seems to almost always employ: 1) line up 2) move slowly towards the enemy regardless of missile fire 3) stop in missile range and tidy up the lines 4) charge but only at the enemy, do not try to outflank or pressure a weak point. I sympathise with the difficulty that making a challenging AI must be; but since it seems that the Ai hasn’t changed much since the first total war I hope that more resources and time are spent in this area this time around. Sure better graphics are nice, but without Ai improvments, most will find they are playing Rome/Mediaeval just with different units. The total war series succeeds because it combines strategic and tactical play, or should I say it succeeds despite of it. The strategic play is boiled down to production centres that poorly reflect ancient empires let alone the 18th century, and the tactical play is pretty but honestly, not much else. I might seem overambitious for what the series can provide, but we shall see the fruit of my desire when Total War: World War II comes out in 10 years and I am on the team.
Everyone say “Yipkee kiyay Mister Falcon!!!”
Posted by Alexander Schull on August 24th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Comment # 71
Finally, there is a Total War game that lets you control sea battles. I have been waiting for sea battles to become user controled. Another thing that I am waiting for is Heros. I like the idea in Medieval II Kingdons, but Hero’s without a batallion would be nice too. Something that I also would like to see, is being able to attack more than war units. Like attacking the Citizens, preists or religous fiugres, princess’ and being able to fill up the head building with units, or being able to storm it to kill anyone in your way. If any of these features are put in the game, you have my deepest thanks.
Posted by Garet on August 24th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Comment # 72
I would like to have assasins that could acctually die even if they completed a mission. it was always fail and escape, fail and die or succeed.
Posted by James on August 25th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Comment # 73
It would also be good if there were suprise attacks that accually showed the fact you had caught the enemy by suprise rather than just not letting them move there troops around. It would be good if it showed enemy troops running out of tents reaching for guns and swords as your cavalry charged through torching tents and slaughteredtroops also your artillery would be shotting and enemy troops would be panicking as chunks of earth were being blown up aroung them.
Posted by James on August 25th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Comment # 74
I have been playing since Shogun and my allies would constantly attack me while fighting off 5 other factions. will there be some sort of thing that the AI will recognize that an alliance exists and not attack?
Posted by Charles Szell on August 28th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Comment # 75
I’ve also been playing since shogun and I’d agree the Battle AI really lets it down, after two or three battles its easy to see the patten used by the AI in different situations and this makes it far far too easy. however it’s TW so still very fun, Just make sure Empire will be a real challenge in the battles not just in the complexity of the campaign management. Still I cant Wait for Empire. great work so far!
Zero.
Posted by Zero1Zero on August 30th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Comment # 76
Mark – I know it might have been sometimes unconventional for soldiers to go prone (lay down) on the battlefields of the 1800s but I think it would be fun and useful to have the ability to make infantry lie down or kneel also I think it would be nice to zoom in on cities like in Rome Total War and see the city on a regular day, like people going to the market or in the plaza etc.
Posted by James on August 31st, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Comment # 77
i should say give like the AI real tactics like 10 of them and let them change every battle the tactics so you don’t every time know what there gonna do and it will be more off a challenge
Posted by DutchForce on August 31st, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Comment # 78
Dera mark, first of i thank the total war industry on its wicked games and concepts. Secondly, your ideas to make the game ai better have put my initial fears to rest as i thought it would be another medieval 2, however i have to know… what about the turn based strategy ai? I have played total war games since shogun and am a die hard fan, i would like to pen the question how will the ai in turn based campaign build they’re armies for use in the battles? Normally they just seem to build random units and throw them together to form an army, then march into the teeth of my defensive line with some flanking units. I hope the ai will build armies that reflect the time period and country in empire, it would be good to see that as every other total war game had this flaw, where the ai would simply group whatever infantry cavalry and war machines/missile units to form a bulk fighting force. I hate to critisize one of my favourite games but i just felt that you needed to know. Thanks for reading my complaint and if you have already rectified the problem or are trying to solve it i send you all the hope that it works. A Fan forever… Josh
Posted by josh on September 2nd, 2008 at 1:34 am
Comment # 79
Hey guys i am a HUGE fan of all totalwar games and i just have to say i love them, but i need the AI to be much more challenging, for example in Medevel Total War II, If you have a couple of archer units from england all you have to do is put down stakes and you can just fire away without the enemy charging, you just cut them down until they are all dead or they run so please make the battles more realistic in ways like this. Also it would be great if you could put in a feature where you could expand the size of a unit instead of buying more units, this would make battles bigger, fercer, and more fun, plus save room in your army unit box. AND PLEASE EXPAND THAT UNIT BOX!!!!! LET US HAVE MORE UNITS!!!!!!!! I WANT BIGGER BATTLES!!!!!! thx for listening to my tantrom.
Yours Truely, Daniel C. Connors
Posted by Daniel on September 3rd, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Comment # 80
I’d really love some better AI or options or whatever for the ranged units.
On walls they’d conveniently place themselves in a way so only very few could fire accurately at the same time, and once you – God forbid! – had to MOVE them, they’d bunch up on the walls, or even flat-out refuse to move… I’m really hoping these irritating details will be fixed – there’s nothing worse than a close battle that’s lost because you !#”¤¤” units refuse to act even with the IQ of a 5-year-old.
Also, this is not your desk – but please, for the love of GOD somehow summarize all the traits of our generals. Having to use a freaking spreadsheet to figure out what a general is good or bad at is NOT part of the game – it’s just bloody stupid
Posted by Søren Andersen on September 4th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Comment # 81
It would be great if you could include more Asian countires other than India. Maybe Siam or Malaya.
Posted by Rick on September 11th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Comment # 82
Hello and thank all of you CA developers about good games. AI is weakest point at all TW series but TW games allaround are best what is released. My opinion about AI weak behavior is unplanning, every commander make plan before battle and look how it goes. TW AI makes moves everytime same routines and runs most valuable(cavalry etc.) units one by one straight through to pikes and others to defensive units, massacre! Never seen AI attacked all infantry same time and cavalry attack from side. Pre routines to AI and some hard battle plans then i suppose it would work.. I wait Empire TW like a christmas
Posted by Masa on September 12th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Comment # 83
I would really like to see another Asia Total War with focus on China.
Posted by Will on September 12th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Comment # 84
ai troops have to reform during the battle one formations get screwed up. i thought the gun units in medevil 2 were mediocre. they would go into spread formation and loose any semblence of a battalion by battalion battle line. please dont let this happen in Empire. AI delaying actions sounds spectacular. it always bothered me in rome and medevil that the battles were to the last man conflicts. the AI doing strategic reatreats in the midst of battle is exactly what ive been waiting to hear. btw how are you guys dealing with the root from europe to india because i havent heard any talk about afrika or the pacific. will there be south america and afrika even in truncated form?? hope you have safavid iran and german microstates of 1 or 2 provinces so its not immediatly like 19th century map of europe with austria and prussia dominating cent europe. you have to expand the size of armies 5-8000 on either side would prob be sufficient.
Posted by harris on September 20th, 2008 at 7:55 am
Comment # 85
for custom games, can there different senerios such as hold a hill or town, cross a river in 20 min, attack town and hold ect?
Posted by bob on September 20th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Comment # 86
i am just wondering how to a trial on the new total war
as i am a big fan and getting bord of compeatine med2 tw
all the bast mark
Posted by mark clover on September 22nd, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Comment # 87
This game will live and die by the AI, hope it doesn’t let us down again, the AI has been broken since MTW1, good luck.
(saddened by the gun that the grenadier above is using, getting the graphic details right is suppose to be the easy bit)
Posted by Geoff on September 23rd, 2008 at 10:13 am
Comment # 88
I have played Rome:total War and Medieval II and I loved them both, the battle map was extremely good but by the end of Medieval II i was just sending huge armies everywhere and always auto-resolving because i just got fed up of going through every battle knowing that it would be once again an easy win, hopefully this brand new AI should actually make it a challenge to go into a fight and not always come out on top. Also, I know this has nothing to do with AI but it would be really cool if the campaign map was the entire world, and it was much harder and longer to conquer even with cheats, but either way this game will be good, all Total Wars just dominate over every strategy game ever made.
Posted by Seb on September 26th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Comment # 89
Will the AI fight naval battles like land battles (how much land has been gained) or will they fight like naval battles are supposed to be fought (emphasis on where units are)?
Posted by Shail on September 28th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Comment # 90
please make trade ship are real pieces that can pirates held or enemy ships so patroling the see makes it more important also trade routes & pillaging the areas without attacking the main city in the county.
Posted by ahmed on October 5th, 2008 at 2:03 am
Comment # 91
I only want one thing. I want my cannons to be hitchable to horses so I can move them fast. This TW thing where some guys have to shove the cannon everywhere eats at me. I want horse drawn cannons. PLEASE tell me I’ll get them in this one?
Posted by George on October 12th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Comment # 92
I know that this isn’t really an AI comment but does anyone else think that when they run out of eras in stead of just ending the series they should, as a finale, make one final game that encompasses the entire globeand goes from Rome allthe way way through to the Empire era?
Posted by Kurtis Butler on October 14th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Comment # 93
Also pirates and attacking trade ships withthe navy is an awsome idea
Posted by Kurtis Butler on October 14th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Comment # 94
Also pirates and attacking trade ships with the navy is an awsome idea
Posted by Kurtis Butler on October 14th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Comment # 95
yo besides what the other people before me hhas said i would like to see alliances do more in this game if im england and im very good allys with germany and they are also at war with france they should help attack the french with me because in the other games i remember that alliances were only good for having them not attack you but have soliders next to our cities
Posted by dan on October 16th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Comment # 96
can you play whit holland toin this game?
Posted by johan on October 18th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Comment # 97
I would like to see the ai actually accepting the ceasefires because I always try to and even though I offer them land and I could completely ahnilate them they NEVER accept.
also I would like it to be less demanding for us to ask them to declare war on a nation as many nations did ask nations about declariong war on other nations for little or nothing in return
Posted by bob on October 25th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Comment # 98
hey all.
i have played every single version of total war and loved them. i have submitted bugs to the Devs before that have been replied to and fixed . i have beta tested many games now and i military experience at the officer level.
i have a few major things i would like tested or explained out or fixed please
.
Campaign AI-
#1. the weighting on which units the AI builds – ie in previous versions i would spend most of my time hunting down armies of archers which my 1-2 total cavalry armies leaving my main infantry force to take towns. Therefore a balance needs to be reached for empires a good army would consist of 10% artillery, 15%-20% cavalry and the rest on foot.
Battle AI-
#2. the AI using its cavalry first instead of waiting to use it at the best time as a flank once spearman have been engaged and the battle is at its peak. ie the crippling flanking force that turns a battle. i used to as my main tactic online and single player and rarely lost battles.
#3. when an AI army was in a better position and be hidden. 90% they would move their forces to show me where they were. and when my army approached they would fall back or displace into a bad spot allowing an easy victory.
thanks in advance
Posted by Nathan on October 30th, 2008 at 7:49 am
Comment # 99
For those who find vanilla MTW too easy, then try Lusted’s mod for it: Lands to conquor!! really really good!
Posted by cunobelin on October 31st, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Comment # 100
Why not forget about focusing to much work on improving the AI and instead make it possible to play the campaign(s) in multiplayer? I think not being able to play the campaign multiplayer is a SERIOUS minus to this excellent game. Just imagine….. MULTYPLAYER CAMPAIGN!
Posted by Gundur Streymoy on November 11th, 2008 at 7:10 am
Comment # 101
I read this in a Eurogamer preview
“Perhaps the only rock left unturned is multiplayer. We were told Empire would be the “most moddable” instalment in the series when we asked if there would be a toolset shipped with the game, and there would be “more modes of [online] play” than ever before – some inspired by fans, others to attract newcomers. Creative Assembly will reveal all in the lead up to February 2009, but the feeling in the room was that something special lurks in the wings. The series has only ever let us face off in land battles against each other online. Perhaps Empire will finally gift the Total War series with an online campaign map mode. We certainly hope so. If it does, then there is so much both at first glance and second that Empire may do what no other in the series has: earn 10/10.”
And thats the truth.
Posted by Gundur Streymoy on November 11th, 2008 at 7:28 am
Comment # 102
Dear Jack,
thanks for your introduction. Even though I’ve been enjoying the Total War series, I’ve never been involved so deeply into exchanging experiences that I’d remember names very well
Also, thanks for pointing out the general way you guys are developing the AI, after all it’s sort of the heart of the game. If you would implement a parade ground where there’s no combat but only a ‘showcase’ of units, I’m sure people would enjoy parading their armies up and down as much as the actual battles.
Since you’re developing the AI, I’d like to ask a few questions myself:
- will the AI occupy strategically important position like river crossings? I noticed that those are exceptionally easily defendable in Kingdoms.
- will armies suffer moral or other penalties if they lose a battle and are forced to fight again within a certain number of turns? Likewise, will units who won a battle recieve a temporary increase in moral?
- likewise, will units who fled the battlefield also suffer moral penalty? On the other hand, they could of course be ashamed by themselves and try to restore their reputation during the next battle, but the point is to give battles a small effect even after they took place, depending on the outcome (indecisive, minor victory, normal victory, heroic victory).
- Will players be able to form their own elite units ie by renaming them? When you announced those 6 special units which will be available during the campaign, I missed the Kings German Legion among other units.
- will flanking fire / attacks have a bigger impact than before?
- I expect that artillery will be considerably more effective, but will we be able to divide batteries of eg 2 guns into single guns and place them where we want?
- With all those firearms around, line of sight will certainly be more important, but will we be able to fire indirectly. For example directing mortars behind a wall / hill? Approximately how many rounds will all units have?
- Will units be able to replenish their ammunition on the battlefield? (taking ammunition from fallen comrades, fallen enemies, from quatermasters somewhere backwards…)
- Will units be able to use combined tactics / formations? Ie placing artillery directly in front of infantry units in square formation and let the gunners seek protection in the infantry formation if cavalry should attack them? Likewise, will units be able to destroy / damage guns so even if they’re pushed back, the enemy can’t use them any more?
- Concering square formation: Will we be able to form 4 units in line formation in a way that they’re actually forming a square and will the AI recognize this as a square? How do you plan to solve frontal cavalry charges on infantry work?
Regards,
Stefan
Posted by Stefan on November 17th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Comment # 103
don’t know if this is too late…i just saw it. but i would like 2 things in empires. if it cannot be done for empires take it into consideration for later games/expansions. i would like 1. the terrain to be much more important. i don’t like how it is just grass, desert or snow. there should be different types of grounds so the battle maps are more diverse and give you more decisions. I would like there to be long grass grounds, short grass, muddy terrain, different depths of snow, etc.
2. i would also like for the AI to make an organized retreat when it sees that it is loosing. For example, great britain send their army to battle, most of it is destroyed, knowing it is impossible to win now it retreats in an organized way so it can still fight if i attack them while they are retreating. I just hate being able to defeat army after army when they are retreating, especially when it is only 10 bodyguards chasing 5000 infantry and killing them all with none saying “hey its only 5 bodyguards chasing us, lets kill them first and then keep on retreating” or think that if they did kill my general they might win.
3. i know i said only 2 but here is my last proposal. fix the general suicide attacks. generals were barely ever in the frontline. they were at the back raising morale, giving orders or planning the next move
Posted by Hero on November 25th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Comment # 104
Hello i’ve played the TW series since Shogun Total War, here are my expectations:
A)Hope morale will play a significant role and we won’t see again units engagingand leaving without routing.
B)I want to believe terrain will be as important as it was in MTW and there will be battlefield objective such as destroying 75% of enemy troops to win a fight.
C)Stealth units (like Hashassin), need to be made able to actually sneak/ambush small elite units (e.g.artillery, scouts,e.t.c).
D)No unit limit hwen fighting at land and sea because that way the faction that rely on cheap units can’t make use their numbers as they can only have up to 24 units in total.
Posted by Elgreco on November 27th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Comment # 105
Hi Mark,
Same with most guys here, I have been with total war since shogun. Anyway, since the development of the total war games are incremental for every title, let me share my observations with the last game, medieval 2 and its expansion. For the battles, I have noticed that the AI, during castle sieges, takes only one route to the castle center. they always do the direct approach. They never maneuver, even if they have a high ranking general commanding them. It is always easy to do a bottleneck maneuver when defending the castle / city center. Also, the difficulty of the battle is based on the strength of the AI and not on how cunning it is when it attacks. That’s how I think it should since it is a tactical game. I sure do hope that its totally different with empire.
Posted by johnklerk on December 3rd, 2008 at 11:22 am
Comment # 106
Hi,
Keep up the good work! This game will be awsome ![]()
Just 1 question
Will the AI try to recapture buildings/artilery when lost and will it use differant units help?
eg: The AI looses a cannon, will they send just the crew or a unit of cavalry aswell and will it be done using tacticks from the period
Keep up the good work!
Posted by Ed A on December 19th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Comment # 107
So how`s the AI been going? Been a long while since June 24 2008 or has there been updates i`m missing somewhere?
Posted by Douglas on December 22nd, 2008 at 2:25 am
Comment # 108
I didnt like the campaign map A.I. in Medieval 2. Several times, I had a gigantic faction and my tinny allies betrayed me. I cant imagine a situation where that can be real! Even with perfect reputation that repeatedly happened. It would be nice have some allies to grow with instead of slaying them all. One day I had accepted to become a vassal (to see what happens), and in the next turn the same nation atacked me, really weird.
Posted by Andreas on December 22nd, 2008 at 5:01 am
Comment # 109
ive been following up total war since medieval 1 and It would be nice instead of the troops retreating and doing nothing about it while being circled instead if cavarly caches up to them they will have a desperate atempt to fight them off or while running and retreating if they are being chased would turn around and fire once and awhile and instead of going all the way back mabie falling back and regrouping and like total war lover said having cannons on the walls like many forts the french built during those times would create it much more realistic
Posted by sean on December 22nd, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Comment # 110
Hi Jack lusted, I would just like to show my appreciation for the effort and passion you are putting into making the AI within this game as successful as possible. There are some obvious leaps in how you are able to interact with the development (by meeting every fortnight to discuss progression/problems), these will help to iron out flaws and make the AI as refreshing and challenging as possible. Hopefully this relation will help the AI to meet the demands of the public, as you have obvious links with fans of the genre at totalwarcentre.com
I myself am not familiar with this fan site, but I have been a diehard fan of the genre since Shogun (I didn’t buy the original med at the time, but the 2nd one was awesome) I just wanted to input my thoughts on what I feel could be improved in Empire from previous titles back (I will focus on my experience with med2, as it is unfair to comment on older titles) I’m merely a casual gamer so I cannot provide constructive coding or whatever goes into developing the AI (lol I don’t mean that harshly) but I can just give some unbias improvements largely from what I experienced in Med2.
The largest disappointment for me in terms of AI was how the alliance system didn’t largely affect the AI’s behaviour towards you on the campaign map. I remember in one instance where I played as England, I had married off my princess to the French king, who I had also agreed to team up with against the Holy Roman Empire which at that point held the bulwark of Europe. Together we were happily gaining gracious ground upon our mutually hated foe. Then out of nowhere Spain (which I was also allied with) invaded Wales and took over Caernarvon. At this point I was too happily spreading my regime into Europe to care, until France turned against me. (as they were also allied with Spain, but WHAT was the point. What did they hope to gain because as a partnership we were unstoppable) I then saw my once glorious empire fall in front of my eyes, I know Med 2 is designed for these types of experiences. But it just took away all shreds of creditability when an ally that had so much to gain from our partnership would just as happily turn against you. It just showed the lack of functionality in that system as it was futile to form alliances when they essentially meant nothing. I hope in Empire the AI would not behave in this way, and that alliances play a more integral part in the campaign and the behaviour of the AI around you.
This could also be applied to the battle map, where a more neutral nation would be less inclined to destroy you to oblivion than your most hated foe. It was also slightly annoying on the campaign map when neutral nations were able to march across your territory, without an option to send a defiant threat to them without having to go to war.
Another point I would like to raise is the AI in sieges and general AI path finding, I often found that the AI in Med2 would be happy to break a small section of the fortification you’re defending and force all their troops through that gap. All I had to do as a defender was deploy a spear unit with some archers firing down at the flanks; victory would follow in short pursuit. At first this was quite gratifying, but then after this is repeated again and again it would just become tiresome. It would be good if in Empire the besieging enemy would be cunning enough to force several openings (at different points around the fortification to thin out the defenders) to provide more authentic, heart pounding and dramatic sieges which will most likely be different each time you play, rather than the besieger stifling all their units down a single chokepoint.
I know that this comment was quite lengthy, but like you. I wish this total game to be awesome when it comes out in February, given that it is released just after my January exams. This way I have something to look forward to after them which does provide abit more incentive >.>. Anyway I hope you take these points onboard, because apart from them the game looks to be really promising and I can’t wait to play it when it does eventually come out.
Posted by Duncan on December 23rd, 2008 at 9:19 am
Comment # 111
hi , Will it be able to kill the horse and the rider still lives? please send me the answer to this thing.
Posted by Robin on December 25th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Comment # 112
Will Rifle Regiments be available?
Posted by Rickaayy on December 26th, 2008 at 2:20 am
Comment # 113
I know its a little late saying this and all but mabey if its easier you can have the AI learn from the persons tactics and counter them like if people like to cround wall with a ton of spearmen then hold the cahrge and fire artilery at the center for a little bit then charge, ext… sorry for my spelling.
Posted by Mike on December 31st, 2008 at 6:19 am
Comment # 114
Hey guys! Looks like the best game of all time coming up, along with Conan lol.
Could you guys please make the battles more challenging, you know how in crusaders thy kingdom come game they have secondary objectives – why don’t u guys throw in a mix? Like getting special bonuses for them like in vices stuff.
Oh, and please make the campaign more stimulating, would it kill u guys to add more detail? It’s like u r always holding back for the follow-up!
Is the expansion pack going to be Napoleonic wars and Russia?
Posted by Den on January 5th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Comment # 115
hi i am Robbie Gallagher form Canada Alberta i play total war when Rome total war that was a good game but i wish the AI was a lot more smarter like sitting up ambush and hitting u where it hurts so that u can throw your mouse at the wall and i wish it was not the same battle every time please make them smart as hell make the please please !!!!!!!!!!!!!! awesome game u guys are making keep up the good work
Posted by robbbie on January 6th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Comment # 116
I have been playing total war since shogun and I have to say that the difficulty of the game got worse since the introduction of the new free movement system in Rome. in the province system of shogun and medieval one the AI could bring overwhelming force to bear on a province and so you can lose a battle. Since the free movement system i play campaigns where I literally win 250 battles and lose 4. This is at the highest difficulty. The AI just cannot win and never brings overwhelming force to bear to make up for the deficiencies in the AI. What I want from a total war game is the possibility of losing. I want to lose battles. I want the AI to kick my arse and make me work for victory, so far this hasn’t happened since Rome (although the barbarian invasion did bring some of that overwhelming force!). So please get the AI winning and make the game a real challenge without having to give it superior statistics or morale.
Posted by John Cotis on January 9th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
Comment # 117
I have been hooked on total war since ROME. You guys make an awesome game! I just have one question, will captains (or generals if for some reason they are in the thick of a battle) actually duel it with eachother on the battle field? Or will they just ignore eachother like they seemed to do on Medeival 2?
Posted by use-light-cavalry on January 10th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Comment # 118
hi id just like you to do as much work with the alliance system as possible would be good to build friendships with other countries , ps what a job you have lol
Posted by cb on January 10th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Comment # 119
It really does make me laugh the way in which many people complain at the way battles become predictable. Throughout history that is generally the way war went. And how generals such as Wellington became so great, they had a good idea about what the enemy was going to do before they did it. I therefore i would like the factions in Empire to behave as they did in history, for example; In the many wars between Britain and France the French would advence upon the Brit’s in huge powefull collem, with the beat of drums striking fear into the heart of their enemy. That is the kind of AI i personnaly would like to see. I sugest an option to choose weither battles will be bassed on historically accurate tactics or follow a more arcade like route for those who prefer that.
Posted by JOHNtotheBAIN on January 12th, 2009 at 7:46 am
Comment # 120
Hi guys. Just 2 simple remarks. I hope you read this.
1- Please do not forget Portugal as a historical faction (not to be played because I recognize that its part is more reflected on the 1500-1700 than later) and of course the portuguese colonies in south africa to be conquered!! Angola, Mozambique and even South Africa itself are rather important to be forgotten. Once more, not to be played as a faction, simply to be there with its important colonies at the time (Brazil of course).
2- Please correct the AI to prevent those stacionary positions when being bombarded- that is one of the most annoying flaws in the last Total Wars – soldiers don t just stand there being shot till the last one stands without fighting back! The other improvement request goes toward the diplomacy reasonability: try to make the AI less of a turncoat and more reliable!
I wish you luck.
Posted by Bernardo Gomes on January 22nd, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Comment # 121
Will the game reflect some of the major tactical differneces between factions?
eg. French columns, British fighting in two ranks rather than the usual three.
PS. Game looks awsome, been playing since Rome (shogun & Medievil 1 refused to work on my computer @ the time).
Posted by maddy on January 22nd, 2009 at 8:16 pm
Comment # 122
I’m a retired person and a fan of the total war series from the beginning. I would like to know how I can become a tester for this game.
Thanks,
Al
Posted by Al on February 1st, 2009 at 10:42 pm
Comment # 123
please will you do yourselves a favour and make a ww1 total war what would be better than a huge muddy rainy battlfield with your men doug in and a ferotious enemy 500meters to a km away.you dont have to worry about taxes etc just your amount of men eg:germany had roughly 14 000 000 men wow what a treat to command that many men over a huge front.my idea is you alocate men to sectors and resources and train already existing men on the front lineswith better equipment rather than create groups of men and instead of being in direct contact with your men you should issue orders like its the 15feb than you telegraph a message to charge on the 20th of feb than when that day comes it zooms into the battle and you survey the battle rather than direct everyman thats unrealistic who is even listening when on the charge towards certain death higher me for ideas you wont regret it i have no idea hoe to make games but dam i know what i want shweet
Posted by Glenn on February 9th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Comment # 124
I was first introduced to total war in the medevil total war and have been hooked ever since. I mean really hooked i can and have played everything since for 10 hours strait minus smoke and bathroom breaks. I am really looking forward to an AI that is as challenging as it is resoursefull. Ive noticed in the past games that the AI didnt take full advantage of my strategy weaknesses and troop weaknesses. Like in rome total war where the AI waits to attack till all rams ingaged in the battle have done there work. I would like to see the AI attack when the first ram breaks through with some of its forces and be able to carry on different battles within the main battle as a real human would. I really look forward to the sea battles as all ive seen so far leaves my mouth watering like when i smell a good lassana lol. Im looking forward to playing against a AI that is totally unpredicable and cunning. My dream job would be to be involved in the testing and making of the next total war.
Posted by Tim M on February 17th, 2009 at 5:56 am
Comment # 125
Waw, i really hope its as realistic as hes ses it is…… coz im worried about doing something so realistic the AI wouldent be able to handle it. I don’t have any example but i hope you know what i mean. Anyway…Good Work! thats what i have to say…
Posted by HarryMTW1#fan on February 17th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
Comment # 126
Are you able to confirm what how reinforcements will be introduced to the battle and/by whom they will be controlled?
Thanks
Posted by Andy on February 22nd, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Comment # 127
I’ve been playing the game for a few days now and I have so far found the battle AI to be commendable, with few or no disasterous incidents to speak of. Except during a siege…
In sieges supplies run short on both sides very fast, and apparently one of the first things both attackers and defenders run out of first is higher brain functions. Higher brain functions must be difficult for quartermasters to get a hand of and very difficult to get all the troops issued with at least one set each.
Allow me to mention the two most common cases of lobotomized infantrymen:
When I am defending the walls, everything goes swimmingly, untill I find I must move one of my units. If I tell them to descend from the walls into the square in the middle, they will trip and fall over each other with excitement in their rush to rapell down the walls on the ropes of my enemy. I know rapelling down walls is fun, I love it myself, but during a battle one would think that simply using the stairs is a much simpler, safer and faster way of doing it.
When they (at long last) get down to terra firma, they seem to have forgotten the keys to the gate, because, as often as not, they will form up and jog at a sedate pace around the fort to the next gate, or even the next one after that, before entering. The entering itself also seems to present them with some trouble, as only one or two men at a time can manage to squeeze through the gate. The 20-foot wide gate.
Now, when the enemy has made it into my fort, they will naturally tend to do their very best to capture the flag in the middle, or at least they will do so untill they are distracted by something more interesting. Like a patch of flowers or a pretty pebble. There are 30 seconds left on the timer. 30 seconds before they win the day and can toast to my crushing defeat, and my forces are at this point still fumbling in their pockets trying to figure out who has the key for the gate.
Then the enemy forces seem to be distracted by the aforementioned pebble/flower upon which they abandon the flag to march a few laps around the square before returning to the flag to start the hoisting all over again.
The former is frustrating and unnecessary. It is offset by the matching cranial trauma of the latter, but this presents me with little comfort as there is now no way for me to be able to brag to my imaginary friend that I outwitted the enemy polygons. It’s halfway down to luck, anyway.
Posted by Eggmuffin on March 10th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Comment # 128
My Disapointment.
I’ve played the total war series from its conception in Shogan right through to the latest version and my one single biggest dissapointment has been the AI. Medieval I was the last of the series where it was ever feasibly possible to lose, and only with a bit of creative stupidity. From then onwards the game has progressively focused on spectacular graphics, and epic scenes with little in the way of challenge or intelligence in the way of gameplay. Entire armies waiting while you destroy them with archer fire, or sitting outside your gates doing nothing, or generals suiciding in the first minute of a battle were problems endemic that verged on making a brilliant game unplayable.
And it seems Total War’s greatest flaw highlighted by fans again and again has failed to be addressed. I read with dispair at comments and reviews on Empire saying “Enemy troops often fail to engage you, even when under direct fire. It isn’t uncommon for your AI opponent to use only a few units at any given time and let you get an early upper hand, particularly when you have taken care with your formations during the deployment phase.” from gamespot.com reviews or “The artificial intelligence doesn’t always take sensible steps” or
“Without the bizarre AI behavior, you can concentrate on real battlefield tactics and not on exploitation” or other reviews.
Don’t get me wrong I love the series and have spent hours playing Total War games. Yet when mods like Stainless Steel (Medieval II) or Darth AI (ROME) can manage to push leaps and bounds out of intrinsically crippled AI system I am truely baffled how the Total War team fail again and again to build one that poses even a half decent challenge which doesn’t have errors that become obvious within the first 30 minutes of play.
The games always look great and have suberb content but the effort put into the AI is such a dissapointment. While a work of art is all very well, after the inital “oo that looks so pretty” reaction i’m always left with a stale “this could have been so much more” bitter aftertaste. It would be so much nicer after buying the game not to have to wait 6 months for a modder to completely rework the AI…
Posted by Justin on March 24th, 2009 at 2:59 pm


